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Monday, February 11, 2013

‘Identify processes’ versus ‘Determine processes’

The word ‘identify’ (mentioned in clause 4.1 in ISO 9001:2000 QMS Standard) has been replaced by the word ‘determine’ in the present standard ISO 9001:2008 QMS Standard. Accordingly, as per ISO 9001:2008 QMS Standard, now the organization needs to determine processes needed for the quality management system and their application throughout the organization. ISO 9001:2008 QMS Standard has made the requirement more clearly in meaning.

The changes appeared in ISO 9001:2008 QMS Standard are more editorial improvement. If we look to the intent of the requirements of clause 4.1 in both standards, there has been no change. However, the word ‘identify’ has limited meaning that means ‘to establish the identity’, while the word ‘determine’ means ‘to decide or settle conclusively and authoritatively’, ‘’to give direction to …’.

As people may understand that earlier version of the standard (ISO 9001:2000) wants to establish the identity of processes needed for the quality management system, while the new version (ISO 9001:2008) wants to decide or settle conclusively and authoritatively processes needed for the quality management system and to give direction to such processes.

The difference between ‘identify’ and ‘determine’ appears to be quite large. In identifying processes, just find out and name processes, while in determining processes, it needs to apply some formula or criteria to those processes that may have impact on the quality management system of the organization.

Request - Please make your reaction to the write-up. Thanks.

Keshav Ram Singhal


max India said...

hm Good information about ISO 9001 concepts

PMG India said...

Implementing ISO 9001 in any organization requires knowledge, skills and understanding to enable the practical application of the standard.

Ashok Vaishnav said...

By bringing out a major, and very fundamental ‘editorial’ change in the 2008 version of ISO 9001, the post has done an invaluable service to the profession of Quality Management in general, and the practicing world of Quality Management Systems.

We amplify various definitions of ‘determine” to help understand the full impact of the intent of this change:
The http://www.vocabulary.com/dictionary/determine : provides a wide range of meaningful definition sand related synonyms, briefly summarised here below:
“Determine comes from the Latin for "bring to a close," and when you determine something, you have closed all the questions you have about it and are quite sure you know the answer.” +”find out, learn, or determine with certainty, usually by making an inquiry or other effort” + “establish after a calculation, investigation, experiment, survey, or study” + “shape or influence; give direction to” [“experience often determines ability”] +”reach, make, or come to a decision about something” + “settle conclusively; come to terms” +”fix conclusively or authoritatively” + “decide upon or fix definitely” + “fix in scope; fix the boundaries of” [the tree determines the border of the property”]

Oxford Advanced Learner’s Dictionary has following information:
1. “to discover the facts about something; to calculate something exactly” - (with synonyms)
- determine something An inquiry was set up to determine the cause of the accident.
- determine what, whether, etc… We set out to determine exactly what happened that night.
- it is determined that… It was determined that she had died of natural causes.”
2. “determine something| determine what, whether, etc…to make something happen in a particular way or be of a particular type
- Age and experience will be determining factors in our choice of candidate.
- Upbringing plays an important part in determining a person's character.”
3. “to officially decide and/or arrange something
- determine something A date for the meeting has yet to be determined.
- determine (that)… The court determined (that) the defendant should pay the legal costs.”
4. “determine to do something| determine (that)…| determine on something
o to decide definitely to do something ….They determined to start early.”
“Determine Quote” has an interesting array of quotes to further gain the depth of nuances of the meaning of world of the word ‘determine’.
http://www.answers.com/topic/determine also provides a multidimensional insight.

KeshavRam Singhal said...

Thanks for comments. Please keep visiting my blogs and keep commenting too. Regards.